Building your Marketing Organizational Team through Accountability, Responsibility, Empowerment, and Trust - with Tyler Shields, Chief Marketing Officer, JupiterOne

What are the key factors to consider when building your marketing team? Is it purely expertise and experience? Does a newcomer in the industry have a chance? 

Our guest for today, Tyler Shields, Chief Marketing Officer at JupiterOne answers this question and more.

"I think the net-net is giving people accountability and responsibility. As long as you can guide them in the correct direction to achieve what needs to be achieved, you provide them with that accountability. If they're the right type of person, they take it, and they own it. They want to succeed.

I don't want to dictate to my employees, 'Do this every day here.' I don't want to tell you every morning, 'Here are the four things I want to get done every day.' That's not how I operate. 

I found that people respect that. And I think driving respect within your organization is key."

- Tyler Shields, Chief Marketing Officer, JupiterOne

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Transcript

Introduction: 0:04
From Revenue Rhino, I'm Brad Hammond, and this is The Lifelong Customer Podcast. We're interviewing successful sales and marketing leaders in discussing ways in which they're building lifelong relationships with their customer.

Brad Hammond: 0:19
Welcome to The LifeLong Customer Podcast. I'm your host, Brad Hammond.

Ice Artificio: 0:23
And I'm your co-host, Ice Artificio.

Brad Hammond: 0:25
Today, we have Tyler Shields from JupiterOne. Tyler, it's really nice to have you on.

Tyler Shields: 0:30
Yeah, thank you, Brad. I appreciate the invitation.

Ice Artificio: 0:33
Yeah, definitely. We're super excited to have you on, Tyler. But before we move forward, can you tell us and everybody listening who you are, your overview? And what's your story?

Tyler Shields: 0:43
Yeah. Sure. My story is really weird. And I'm sure it'll come out a little bit as we go through some of these questions. But I come from an engineering background. I'm not your stereotypical marketer. I actually spent the first half of my career, about 10 to 15 years as a cybersecurity penetration tester and offensive security expert.

So did my master's degree in computer science. Was one of those guys that finds all those really cool zero-day exploits that break things that hit the news. Did that for about 15 years, and then switch my career on its head and somehow ended up becoming a marketing CMO at a cybersecurity-related startup, putting me in a fairly unique position to actually provide both the technical knowledge and the business knowledge on how to do marketing and do go-to-market in a general sense. And I've done a handful of startups over the second half of my career, all generally in the cybersecurity space. 

Ice Artificio: 1:35
All right. That sounds like quite the pivot. So can you tell us more around your process of marketing? Because definitely if you're from engineering, you would really see things differently. So how does that look like?  

Tyler Shields: 1:47
Yeah, for sure. I think every marketer has things they're good at and things they're not good at, right? And I fully admit like, I have some weaknesses compared to others when it comes down to picking colors or picking less binary answers of yes or no. That's always the harder thing for me in a marketing-type environment. But I think I approach marketing very differently the most in that I approach it as engineering discipline and the way a computer science person would approach it, which is generally do something, measure results. And then if the results are what you're looking for, repeat that something, right.

And so I design and I've helped a lot of companies over the last 10 to 15 years do something similar, but I designed my go-to-market generally around building the engine first, understanding the metrics of what's driving success for your marketing, or your go-to-market engine, and then iterating towards success and looking for the roadblocks that might be coming.

So if you create a marketing pipeline, and you recognize halfway through the pipeline things are starting to get stuck. You have all the metrics at your disposal to say, this channel is getting stuck in this position. It's most likely because of this thing that we've changed. And so really taking an engineering approach to the way marketing works. I wouldn't say it's for everyone. But it's what's worked for me at the last handful of startups that I've been involved with.

Brad Hammond: 3:04
Love that.

Ice Artificio: 3:04
That's a very good perspective. So jumping onto JupiterOne, how does marketing look like in that space, especially with that background in mind? 

Tyler Shields: 3:14
JupiterOne's an interesting company. JupiterOne does something we call cyber asset management and governance. And it's really about just collecting all the information about your cybersecurity and your infrastructure systems inside your company and providing the context to help your security team do better.

From a go-to-market perspective, we actually have a slightly bifurcated approach. We have both the top-down traditional commercial at large enterprise, you know, let's call it 50 to 150 or $200,000 ARR style sales go-to-market with large account executives, etc. And we also have a free tier for the product. So individual cybersecurity people can come in sign up for the product or infrastructure, cloud security.

People can sign up for the product, get value from it and swipe a credit card and move up from a true bottoms up funnel simultaneously. And managing that is a little bit of a difficult process because you really have to understand both sides of the product, like growth versus traditional marketing equations. But I think we do a pretty good job of that. And you know, we're seeing active activity on both sides of that equation. 

Brad Hammond: 4:21
Love that. So let's dive in today's topic and that's marketing leadership and building a marketing organizational structure. So finding the right people and guiding them and mentoring them to success. So tell us a bit about what your approach is to building out the marketing team. We'd love to kind of dive into this.

Tyler Shields: 4:42
Yeah, you know, an interesting story about that, as I've done a bunch of startups, but a few years ago, I did one called Signal Sciences that did very well. And it was actually the first marketing role I ever had. And I came in as Head of Marketing, VP of Marketing. Signal Sciences eventually sold to Fastly for 775 million, a very, very good outcome. 

My first- I want to say three, maybe four hires under my marketing team at Signal Sciences had zero marketing experience. So I actually built that. I built that group, I built that team based off of, you know, hey, these are people that can get stuff done. These are people that are workers. They're very, very bright people. You task them with a problem and you explain the problem space to them, they can figure out how to provide the solution.

And so what I learned early on was that if you hire that caliber and type of people, you don't actually have to go get the most expensive expert marketer that ever existed, as long as you're able to mentor them and guide them from where they start to knowing how to achieve what needs to be achieved. And given how I describe the model of how I approach marketing, which is very metrics-driven and very data-driven, the answers become relatively apparent, right?

So very quickly, you might say, hey, the first thing we do is we set up the engine, we set up the workflows, we set up marketing automation, the lead sources, we set up our data tracking, the engineering side of it. And that's very much the first thing I did it Signal Sciences. I set all of that stuff up. And I hired a person who has now followed me to a couple of companies over the years, and we knocked on the park, then we hired somebody else who was able to help us build out PR and AR. And actually that person had some experience.

But I think the net-net is giving people accountability and responsibility both. As long as you're able to guide them in the correct direction to achieve what needs to be achieved, you give them that accountability. And if they're the right type of person, they take it and they own it. They want to succeed, right? And I guess I've done fairly well, because here at JupiterOne, I believe I have two or three people on my team who worked with me at Signal Sciences. I also have a small number of people like another handful of people that have worked with me at other companies here at JupiterOne as well.

And at the end of the day, I don't want to dictate to my employees, you know, do this every day here. I don't want to tell you every morning, here's the four things I want to get done every day. That's not how I operate. I really operate in a, hey, we all know what needs to be achieved for this quarter. Here's the goals at the end of the quarter at the highest level. You have the data to say whether you're going to achieve your sections of goals or not. And what we talk about on our weekly one on ones is are we approaching that result? And if we're not, that's okay, like we have three months to get there. But let's manage that data as we progress through, and we can see when we deviate off course. And I found that people respect that. And I think driving respect within your organization is key.

The other thing I'll tell you is early on, when I build a marketing org is sectioning the marketing organizational structure on that accountability line. Because that way you can say I hired this person to do lead gen, demand gen. They own it. They're responsible for it. If they fail, it's their fault, right? 

I have this person to do PMM. I have this person to do content creation. I have this person to do whatever you need. And if you do it that way, it can be difficult because there's always those gray overlap areas. But my job as a leader is to help them distinguish who is accountable for what at all times and help them achieve their goals. And I think that's the way that I really approach organizational structure.

Brad Hammond: 8:12
I love that approach. That's amazing. So let's break that down a little bit. How do you go and find those people that are hungry or doers or like, you know, you can give them a goal and they'll go find solutions and all that.

Tyler Shields: 8:25
Yeah, I have the luxury now of having worked with six companies in the last six or seven years either as a marketing advisor and go-to-market advisor, or directly for the company full time. So I have the luxury of actually hiring really good experts now who know me. And so I'm not saying you don't want it. If you can find those, go get them. I'm not saying you should just say hey, we're never going to hire marketing experts. That's not what I'm suggesting. But what I am suggesting is if you can find the hungry people, the people who say, hey, I want to learn that. I want to come work for you, and I want to knock it out of the park, you can be successful.

I think I hired one person. And I don't want to give away too much because she's an absolute rock star now like really a rock star person. But I hired her, she had never worked in marketing before. And this particular person actually didn't even know how to work a spreadsheet. She really was very young, and really was novice. Within a year and a half of working with her, we had an absolutely superb, highly functioning events engine. And she was just a master at Excel, and the ability to create all the metrics and everything that we needed to manage that program. 

And really what it came down to is I interview for that interest, more so than the expertise. And so with her in particular, she absolutely had the interest. She absolutely had the aptitude to say, hey, whatever you give me, if you give me a day, two days, three days, it's- I'm going to figure it out. So that's kind of what I look for. And you can ask questions specific to that.

Like when have you ever been in a position where you didn't understand what you were doing? And then what did you do? Did you just throw up your hands? Did you tell your boss to tell you what to do? Or did you just say, Hey, I'm going to own this problem. I have accountability for the results. Therefore, I'm going to own the problem and go be successful. And you have to look for that level of ownership in previous things. And it can be something as simple as, hey, I've worked in retail before. I've never been a marketer, but worked in retail before, but I came into those problems. I solved the problem. I took ownership, and I move forward.

And a big portion of that has to do with I do all startups. I'm a startup guy, entrepreneur, right? So when you're building organizational structures at much larger companies, you may not have that luxury that I have to be able to kind of pick and choose the doers. But I think even at the bigger companies, I found hiring a great doer is just going to go a long, long way versus somebody who has market experience and just isn't that mentality.

Brad Hammond: 10:50
Nice. That's great advice. So you look for interest, aptitude, less so on like, do they have this or that, spreadsheet skillset or something and then [crosstalk]. 

Tyler Shields: 11:00
Yeah. And as long as they have the interest and the aptitude, and they're smart people, with the right guidance and direction, you can get them there. And so a lot of times now, I'll hire somebody who may be junior, and I'll actually say, Hey, I'm going to have you do, you know, once-a-month call with this other person. Again, I have the luxury now of having a strong network of people that I can call on. This is somebody else I worked with from ground zero, who came from zero, who knew nothing. Can you work with this person, you know, call them for half an hour, call every other week, and just help guide them?

And I do that too. From a mentorship standpoint, I meet with a lot of very young marketers who are put in the position of, Hey, I'm the only marketer in the startup, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't even know where to begin. And somehow, they catch my name or CEO finds me or an investor finds me or something, I do a lot of that, of helping guide those people to become experts in marketing. 

I don't think marketing is rocket science, I really don't. It's about understanding your customer, putting yourself in the shoes of your customer or your buyer, and really trying to have empathy for them. And then trying things and seeing what works and measuring the results and failing fast and taking that entrepreneurial, lean mindset into marketing.

Brad Hammond: 12:12
Love that. So I'm a marketer out there listening, and maybe I have some systems and processes set up. It's only been me. We need to hire. I find this person with interest and aptitude and they're ready to go. What does that look like from day one to a year and a half later, everything's all working great. You know, the first day, the first month, walk us through some of what that process looks like.

Tyler Shields: 12:34
Yeah, you know, it's funny right now, because in building JupiterOne, I'm hiring right now. So for listeners out there, if you'd like to work with me, please reach out. I'm in need of a product marketing person, and a field marketing person right now.

Sometimes the new hires really will curse my name right out of the gate because I don't handhold a lot, you know. I pretty much just say, here's what you're accountable for, here's what you're going to own. Certainly, if they're more senior, it's easier to get away with this. And they don't curse me quite so bad. They actually like me, because I'm not up in their business all the time.

But if it's more junior person, hey, here's what you're going to own. It may be a subset of PML. Or it may be a small chunk of digital or lead gen and demand gen, right? It may be one specific thing. But I'm not going to babysit you necessarily and tell you everything that needs to be done. This is the end goal we're shooting for. Let's over the next week, two weeks month, go ahead and sit there and try to figure out what it looks like. You come back to me and show me that you put in the effort to read, to learn, to understand, and to grow, I'm going to help you get there. And we're going to enjoy that ride together. And if they come back to me and they say, Hey, I didn't do anything I didn't know what to do. That's usually a huge red flag for me, right? I need somebody that just takes the bulls by the horn. 

And so that in general, they come in, I check them in the fire, they have a ramp time of maybe a month, before they're showing value. And then quickly, they recognize, oh my gosh, look, I did x and we got this much more pipeline, or we got this much more revenue, right, or we get this many more contacts based on my actions. And they start to self-feed on that. They start to truly engage with, oh, this is very Socratic method of learning that I'd like to put into play. 

And they grow pretty quickly. And I can usually have somebody with limited knowledge or experience truly up-to-speed in quarter or two, where I feel like they're 100% worth their salary and pulling their own weight. And then it becomes a matter of great, where do we take you from here to learn and grow and to add something new to your stable to your roster?

Sometimes that's super easy, because they say, hey, I want to do just lead gen, demand gen. I want to be the best person at this discipline. Well, great, I'm going to go find my expert that I've worked with for years. I'm going to make sure you two are connected, and get you in the right direction. I can only get you so far. I'm not an expert at everything in marketing. As a matter of fact, I'm just smart enough to get the right people in play.

But you know, if I connect you with the right people, together, we can level up and scale the organization. And then sometimes I find that people come in as a lead gen, demand gen person and they say, Hey, this is cool and all, but I want to head over here, and I want to do podcasts with you and I want to do TV shows and I want to do creative side. Well, great. Let's figure out how to take you over there and work you towards that. 

And so I found that if you have the luxury and freedom as a business to get people to where they are happy working, you find the best results from them, right? It's not always that easy. And I find another thing that I do, I guess, sometimes maybe to a fault is I'm a little transparent. I'm very transparent. So I'll tell people when I hire them, this is what I'm hiring for, this is what we're looking at. You know, fast forward six months, they want to be in a different group. Well, I can't, right now. And it's not because I don't think you can do it, I actually do think you can do it. But I can't have this gap. 

So when you're transparent with your people, too, they respect that, because they put themselves in your shoes then. And they can say, oh, Tyler can't just vacate this, because it's going to impact the business. And so I find that really being transparent, and really being honest with each other goes a long way. Right? It makes the conversations a lot easier when you can be honest with them and say, this is why I can't do what you're looking for. Or I'm really glad you asked for that. It fits perfectly from a timing perspective. Let's go do it.

Brad Hammond: 16:15
Totally. So it's kind of like day one, and I got a bunch of initiatives. I found this person. I hired him. What does responsibility, accountability look like to you? And do you say, Hey, take on anything in marketing, or do you make it-

Tyler Shields: 16:30
They're always hired for a specific thing.

Brad Hammond: 16:33
Specific thing? 

Tyler Shields: 16:34
Yeah. So during the interview process, if they're not interested in that specific thing, that's going to be a red flag, because they're not going to have the passion to take it in and own it, right? And really, that's what I'm looking for. It's a great word, I guess. I never really thought of 'till just now. But really, I'm looking for passion, passion for whatever it is that they want to do.

The great thing is that they may come in, have that passion, I hire him for one thing. And as I mentioned before that passion can change. That's allowed. And I'm a perfect example of that. I spent 15 years as a computer scientist. And now I have a passion for building businesses and groups and marketing teams inside of businesses, right? My passions changed. And I was lucky enough to be able to plot a course to follow my passion. 

And so yeah, I do hire for a passion for a specific thing. And it's okay if that changes six months, a year, two years down the line. We figure out how to embrace that and give them what they need. Or I've also had to explain them and say, Look, we don't need that. I'm glad you love that. But we don't need that. So I can't put you there, right?

And I've also found that people sometimes say, Well, then, you know, I want to go where I can do that. And my answer becomes great. Let me help you find that place. Between now and then work your tail off for me. And I'm going to tap my network and find you your next job. Like it's all about the person. For me, it's all about making their lives happier, better, and they're going to be better employees along that ride.

Brad Hammond: 17:59
That's awesome.

Ice Artificio: 18:00
That's excellent.

Brad Hammond: 18:01
So you hire for that specific responsibility and that's what they're passionate about. What does accountability look like? Do you check in once a week? Do you create a spreadsheet of goals or what does that look like? 

Tyler Shields: 18:13
Yeah. So the thing about accountability is it's clearly telling them what they own and what their portion of our business is that they specifically are accountable for. But that's only the first step of it, right? Because you can tell somebody what they own. If you don't tell them how you're going to measure them on the results and you don't tell them what the outcomes need to be, the accountability fails, right?

So it's articulating what they're responsible for, what they own. What if stuff hits the fan, I'm coming to you for this, right? Here's how I'm going to measure the results. And then the outcomes need to be these things. This is what I expect the results of your work to generate these outcomes. And again, sometimes I'm a little bit trial by fire in the sense that, you know, I say, here's the outcomes I want. You're accountable for this. I'm not going to give you the path. Sometimes I don't always give them the path.

And it depends on the person. Depends on my time, sometimes, right? I may just not have it in that moment. I may not even have an answer for them. Sometimes the path isn't there. I just know what I need to get done. And I know, you know, Jenny is going to be responsible for it. Hey, Jenny, go figure it out. I trust you, right? And there's a certain level of that trust that comes with accountability too. And it empowers them. I've just found that it truly empowers people when you trust them.

No, I'm not going to trust them, wait 90 days and get my butt kicked by the board when we fail. Like we're going to track it together. We're going to work together we're going to look at the metrics as it goes, and we're going to look for deviation from the course. And we work together so I generally have one-on-ones, weekly one-on-ones. And sometimes those weekly one-on-ones are, hey, we're just having coffee together. How was your weekend? And that's okay, because you need to- especially on this zoom culture, remote-first culture, you really do have to build rapport.

And sometimes like, hey, this week, guys, I'm going to grill you. Be prepared. We're going to grill on all the metrics. I want to know where you're winning, where you're failing, and you better tell me you're failing in spots, because if you're not, you're perfect. And I know you're not perfect, right? So that's kind of the way I approach it. Some days we really hit the metrics hard, and some days we just have coffee together and enjoy each other, you know, just catching up.

Brad Hammond: 20:22
Totally. That's great. Well, we have a couple minutes left here. What final advice would you give to other marketers out there that are looking to build a rockstar team?

Tyler Shields: 20:31
Yeah. Wow. You know, I really appreciate you guys bringing me on to this podcast. I guess I still, to this day, don't necessarily consider myself a rockstar marketer. But I've done a few things right. People keep coming back to me and ask me questions. So I guess I'm doing a couple of things okay.

You know, I would say- I've mentioned some of it already, definitely putting yourself into the shoes of both your employee and your customer and trying to build that person up as much as possible. Build them up and give them the ability to succeed on their own. Don't handhold them, don't babysit them, give them the ability to succeed on their own, and they quickly find that, at the end of the day, I can succeed. I took ownership of that, that's my win. And then you want to celebrate their win, this is not my win. This is their win. And we want to celebrate their win whenever we have the opportunity to do so.

And then on the flip side of putting yourself into your customers' shoes. You can put yourself in your customers' shoes.  You can represent the customer to your team. And you can represent that customer very well to your team, and really help them understand what it is they're trying to achieve for the customer. And that also really kind of gives them the springboard to success.

Brad Hammond: 21:43
Love that.

Ice Artificio: 21:44
It's very educational.

Tyler Shields: 21:46
Thank you.

Ice Artificio: 21:47
Well, thank you so much, Tyler, for being with us. We really enjoyed your stories. And definitely those pieces of advice will be very valuable even for us. So thank you for your time, and this has been great.

Tyler Shields: 21:57
Thank you very much for having me, Ice. Thank you.

Brad Hammond: 21:59
Totally.