“I saw a stat in the latest report the other day that the CMO tenure is the shortest it has ever been.
One of the core reasons is that not enough marketing leaders can draw a straight line from marketing to revenue.
I fundamentally believe that marketing exists to start and continue conversations for their sales team. To me, that's what demand generation is all about.
You find folks that say that demand generation is about lead generation. That is just not true.
You can do lots of things to generate leads that will never result in revenue for your business. That's a core component.”
- Kate Adams, SVP of Marketing, Validity
//
To listen to more The Life-Long Customer podcast episodes, follow us on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/thelifelongcustomerpodcast/
Follow the host Brad Hammond https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-hammond
#thelifelongcustomerpodcast #customerjourney #marketingleadership #b2bmarketing
“I saw a stat in the latest report the other day that the CMO tenure is the shortest it has ever been.
One of the core reasons is that not enough marketing leaders can draw a straight line from marketing to revenue.
I fundamentally believe that marketing exists to start and continue conversations for their sales team. To me, that's what demand generation is all about.
You find folks that say that demand generation is about lead generation. That is just not true.
You can do lots of things to generate leads that will never result in revenue for your business. That's a core component.”
- Kate Adams, SVP of Marketing, Validity
//
To listen to more The Life-Long Customer podcast episodes, follow us on LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/company/thelifelongcustomerpodcast/
Follow the host Brad Hammond https://www.linkedin.com/in/brad-hammond
#thelifelongcustomerpodcast #customerjourney #marketingleadership #b2bmarketing
Introduction: 0:04
From Revenue Rhino, I'm Brad Hammond, and this is The Lifelong Customer Podcast. We're interviewing successful sales and marketing leaders in discussing ways in which they're building lifelong relationships with their customer.
Brad Hammond: 0:20
Welcome to The LifeLong Customer Podcast. I'm your host, Brad Hammond.
Ice Artificio: 0:24
And I'm your co-host, Ice Artificio.
Brad Hammond: 0:27
Today, we have Kate Adams from Validity. Kate, it's really nice to have you on.
Kate Adams: 0:32
It's so great to be here. Brad and Ice, thank you so much for the invite. I'm glad I get to take a few minutes out of my day to spend it with you guys.
Ice Artificio: 0:39
Absolutely. We are super thrilled to have you here, and we can't wait to hear the answers that we will get from all these questions. But before we get started with anything, can you tell us more about yourself and who you are?
Kate Adams: 0:53
Yes, absolutely. So I'm Kate Adams. I'm the Senior Vice President of Marketing at Validity. Validity is a company that we believe that businesses run better and grow faster with accurate data that enables them to increase their email engagement and sales productivity, data that really lets them target, engage and convert customers and do so more effectively than ever before. I've been with the company for about 6 months, but I've been doing marketing for 16 years really. Yes, it's flying by on me here. But yes, been at the marketing game for quite some time now.
Ice Artificio: 1:32
That sounds like fun. So we only count like 16 years. We don't count the age after that, so don't worry.
Kate Adams: 1:37
I like that. Thank you.
Ice Artificio: 1:39
So tell me more about Validity. So you guys are working with data to help marketers make better decisions. How is the marketing looking at that space?
Kate Adams: 1:49
What I love about Validity is that it is a portfolio company. So we have a number of different products. We’ve been around for- what's really fascinating about the business is that the business is only three years old, but has done five acquisitions in that period of time. And many of those acquisitions, our first one, in fact, is 20 years old. It was one of the first partner applications ever in the Salesforce AppExchange, and that is DemandTools.
And DemandTools really helps you improve your overall data quality within Salesforce. And then from there, so we have the data side of the business and then we were fortunate enough to do more acquisitions with BriteVerify, which is all about email, telephone, address verification, and then they acquired Return Path and 250ok, which were pretty much the David and Goliath of all things email deliverability.
So we have a team of incredibly talented people here who know more about email than I think I would even know to ask, right, and all about making sure that a marketer’s email is actually not only getting delivered, but it's getting delivered to the right place, right? As mailboxes get more and more complex in terms of different filters that people may have running on it or different promotions tabs that Gmail introduces or different spam folders that other folks introduce. We help marketers navigate that ever-evolving landscape that is email marketing.
Brad Hammond: 3:19
Very cool. So let's dive into today's topic, which is demand generation. Demand generation is so important when it comes to B2B marketing, and I feel like it's one of those things that marketers can either do very well or do very poorly. So we'd love to just dive in, and we know that as you've kind of risen through the ranks of marketing leadership, you have a really a deep background in this, and we wanted to just talk to you about what is good demand generation? What is poor demand generation? And how can marketers move to really excel in this area? So tell us a bit about demand generation, what it is to you and kind of some of the background there when it comes to you doing this really well.
Kate Adams: 4:04
Yes, Brad. Well, you hit the nail right on the head there. So demand generation is my passion. I think when you talk to SVPs of marketing or CMOs, they usually always come from one marketing discipline. And I spent the most of my time in demand generation for sure. And it's something I'm super passionate about because, to me, demand generation is really about revenue generation for the business. I firmly believe, and I think one of the core reasons why the CMO role is in crisis, I saw a stat the other day that the CMO tenure is the shortest it has ever been in the latest report.
And I think one of the core reasons for that is that not enough marketing leaders are able to draw a straight line from marketing to revenue. And I fundamentally believe that the reason why marketing exists is to start and continue conversations for their sales team. And so to me, that's what demand generation is all about. I think too often, you find folks that wanted to say that demand generation is really about lead generation. And that is just not true, right, because you can do a lot of things to generate leads that will never result in revenue for your business. And I think that's a core component, a big mistake that a lot of folks are making along the way.
Brad Hammond: 5:29
Totally. I love that. Thanks for that background and that explanation. Let's dive into what good demand generation looks like. Can you paint a picture for us of what really a demand generation program that's firing on all cylinders looks like at an organization?
Kate Adams: 5:43
Yes, absolutely. What good looks like is a comprehensive program that is able to measure the entire journey, the entire customer journey. So all the way from when somebody first becomes aware of your organization to all the way through to when they become an advocate for your organization. And I want to point out a really clear delineation there.
You'll notice I said all the way through to when they become an advocate, because marketing's job does not stop when the deal closes, right? That is often, I know, for many sales folks that’s like that's the golden nugget, that's the golden ticket. That's what they're all striving for. And agreed, it's really hard to get there. But I think for many, many organizations and especially for buyers, that's where the journey begins, right?
That's where I have agreed to give you my money. I have agreed to do that for in an error of ARR, an MRR or MRR, whatever you want to call it, right? I've agreed to give it to you for a term, right, a period of 12 months or 24 months or 36 months. Vendors keep elongating it on us all the time, right? But I've agreed to do that. And so now I'm all about how am I going to get my money back? And how am I going to get not only my money back but a return on that investment?
And so it's really important to me that we're thinking about that all the way through to making sure that we can get somebody to onboard successfully, to renew until they're a raging advocate for the business. Another core component of why I think that is so important is that like Forrester, I think the latest Forrester stat I saw on this was 65% of all of your new business is actually coming to you as a result of your existing business of referrals.
So it's all powering that. And whether you can tactically measure that today or not, it doesn't matter. It's actually happening. So that's why I think it's so, so, so important. Sorry, I got a little long-winded there and didn't precisely answer your question, Brad. But to me, that's what- a demand gen program is understanding where your target audience is hanging out and making sure that you have key offers that people love to engage with in all of those channels, right?
And so how are you thinking about content, creating content that people are going to just absolutely love and admire you for, right, and can't get enough of? And that positions your business as a thought leader, I think so much because of the recurring revenue models that we have all implemented. So much of the SaaS buying process is built on trust, right, because I'm going to be stuck with you for a long period of time. So I really need to know that I can trust you. And too many people have gotten burned by vendors who just didn't care enough.
And so really, it's all about how can you build trust with your audience? How do you demonstrate to your audience that you know their pain and that you can help them solve that pain for them? And how are you doing that kind of across that entire journey?
Brad Hammond: 8:53
Love that. So one of the things I heard you say is that some marketers will confuse lead generation with demand generation. Maybe you can explain a little bit more about that and then also some of the other aspects of landmines that marketers might run into or walls that they might from across when it comes to implementing a good program.
Kate Adams: 9:13
Yes. I think one of the things, when I say lead generation versus demand generation, in some ways, I have this kind of concept that I think where marketers are making a big mistake is in this idea of we've acronymized. We made an acronym out of everything.
Too many marketers don't even speak in full terms anymore, right? We're generating MQLs, so that we can put them in our CRMs, and we can get to an SAL or an SQO and an SAO and into a closed one, right? And like it's fascinating to me. And I think it is one of the- another one of the core challenges within marketing today. We forgot that, that MQL is actually Brad, right? That MQL is actually Ice. And Ice cares passionately about, I don't know, black shirts, right?
Ice Artificio: 10:08
Yeah.
Kate Adams: 10:09
And that's what she really cares about. And so why does she care about that? Because she likes the way that they make her look, and she loves the way they make her feel. And it's important to her to be comfortable, right? All of those things.
And so I think because of that, we have lost this idea, because of all of our acronyms, we've lost the human side of that, right, in terms of like how do we have real human interactions, again, that help us build trust along the process, along this customer journey. And again, so it's that idea of from a lead gen perspective, I just need to get MQLs, I need to get MQLs, I need to get MQLs. And in some boardroom somewhere many years ago, a bunch of executives sat around and said, marketing is doing good stuff, but how are we going to measure them? And they're like, oh, yes, we will measure them by MQLs.
And so now marketers run around and say, hey, look at all the MQLs I generated today. But the real problem is then you have so many SDR, BDR, LDR teams, whatever you're calling them in your organization, run around saying like, yes, great marketing is like slapping themselves on the back. But in the meantime, I can't convert any of these people, right?
I can't get any of these people to have a conversation with me. I can't get- the persona that they're generating them in is completely wrong. It's not even the buyer, right? Like every MQL they give me I have to go find who that MQL actually works with who has influence or has any budgetary access and control, right?
And so that's what I mean by if you get stuck on the lead thing too much, you're just going to have a really unhappy group of sales folks on the other side, unfortunately. And that's why I think that marketing-sales interlock is so, so important.
One of the things I am really, really clear about with our sales organization is I am not successful unless you are successful. So I will never be walking around being like, oh, today is a great day unless you're having a great day. And so we're going to win together, and we're going to lose together, and we're going to learn a lot along the way, but we have to be able to do that together.
And so really, it's about, okay, so on the number of MQLs you generated, how many of those turned into qualified conversations? And then how many of those actually turned into opportunities and turned into pipeline? And of that pipeline, how much of it actually turned into closed one business, right, and made it across all the way through? So that's what I mean about connecting that direct line to revenue for marketers.
Brad Hammond: 12:45
Totally.
Ice Artificio: 12:45
That's insightful.
Brad Hammond: 12:47
So if I'm a marketer out there, and maybe I have our CEO and our Board, and I watch it over my shoulder and saying, where is those leads and asking for this. And then I'm hearing this about demand generation and that being different than lead generation. But I have all these pressures and I'm not really sure what to do. Where is a good place to start in terms of really getting on the right track here and the path to success. What do I do in that situation?
Kate Adams: 13:16
Yes. It's a great question. I think the number one thing for me in the interview process was always making sure that I worked for CEOs who understood marketing and understood why it existed. Too many CEOs think marketing is there for the pretty pictures and the swag and all that stuff and as opposed to really understanding like marketing's job is to, again, to drive revenue. And that they're a critical, critical component to that.
So I think that's the number one thing. But now, Brad, your question was, I'm in the seat. I've got a CEO who maybe doesn't get it and saying to me like, hey, just generate the MQLs, and let's get it done. I think the big thing about that, that I- the approach that I have always taken was like helping to educate folks. I talk to my team a lot about the marketing of our marketing, right.
We need to be- because so many times, marketing teams are doing awesome extraordinary work, but only the market sees it, right, because that's where all the dollars are being spent. That's where all the activity is. Internally, lots of folks in the organization don't see it. So I think it's really important that marketers are helping to educate that CEO and say like, hey, look, here's what we did. We generated this many leads or your plan calls for 18,000 leads, but I'm only converting 1% of those all the way down. The funnel- I'm a big lover of funnels, right? I can't believe I've just divulged this to all of you.
But I'm a big funnel lover, and the reason why is it like they're all measurable, right? And there's always, there’s a number of levers that you can tweak along the way there. And so I think one of the key components of one of the really important factors there is helping to educate the organization about what the role of marketing is along that whole funnel.
So it was like we generated this many MQLs, and we took our conversion rate from 1% to 5%. And that resulted in this improved number of sales accepted opportunities. And that resulted in this amount of sales qualified pipeline, which now has an expected close date of whatever your sales cycle length is, which means this is what our revenue is going to look like at that point, right?
That's all great stuff. And I think those are the pieces that you need to like help educate the board, help educate the CEO to understand like why it may not make sense for you to go generate 2 million MQLs next month.
Brad Hammond: 15:57
It's great advice. Well, as we're wrapping up here, what advice or closing thoughts or remarks do you have for the other marketing leaders out there listening today?
Kate Adams: 16:07
Yes. Great question, Brad. Closing thoughts, my closing thought is I'm a big marketing geek, so I have a lot of hot topics that I love to talk to marketers about. And it's actually why I've spent my last 2 companies have been at companies that I get to market to marketers, because I enjoy it so much. But I think we have to- as marketing leaders, it is really up to us to solve this kind of CMO, what I'd call a crisis, right, in terms of that average tenure piece. And we need to really make sure that we are ensuring that the organization understands the full value of your marketing program and what you're doing for the organization and that we're here to drive revenue, and that's what we're here for. And we're a critical component to that, right? I think that is really, really important. And I think we've got to do a much better job as marketers to market our own marketing into the organization and demonstrate that value. And I think it's really important to do that, so I think those are my final thoughts.
Brad Hammond: 17:23
Totally. Well, thanks so much for joining the podcast and sharing all your wisdom here. Really appreciate it.
Kate Adams: 17:29
Thanks for having me, guys.
Ice Artificio: 17:29
Thanks, Kate.
Brad Hammond: 17:31
Totally.
Ice Artificio: 17:32
Absolutely.